Physician facing death - interview in Medscape
Facing Death, a Physician Has a Change of Heart
"In all honesty, this is my second chance at life....", Gragossian....
Robert D. Glatter, MD; Alin Gragossian, DO, MPH
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Robert D. Glatter, MD: Hello and welcome. I'm Dr Robert Glatter, advisor & editorial board member for Medscape, Emergency Medicine.
Dr Alin Gragossian was in the middle of her third year as an emergency medicine resident at Drexel, in December of 2018, when she became critically ill and ultimately required a heart transplant to survive. She now joins us just 7 months after her surgery to discuss her remarkable journey.
Welcome, Alin. It is such a pleasure to have you join us today.
Alin Gragossian, DO, MPH: Thank you for having me.
Glatter: So Dr. Glatter, can you start at the beginning and tell us how everything happened?
Gragossian: I want to say it was mid-December, maybe around December 12 or 13. I was an ICU resident, so I was doing my admissions. As an ICU resident, we run the codes on the floors. That particular day, my attending noticed that I was getting really short of breath with every sentence that I was speaking.
Not only that, but when I was going to the code — I usually take the stairs everywhere when I'm in the hospital, just to get some exercise — I found myself stopping in the middle because I was so short of breath going up the stairs. That happened again another time when I was on the subway.
This all happened in a few days; and the symptoms progressively got worse, until December 21, which is when I went to the hospital.
I tried to make an appointment with primary care, but this was right before Christmas, so many places were closed and I didn't have time.
Then things got worse, and on that particular Friday, when I went to the emergency room. They got a chest x-ray and I remember everybody said I looked sick. My attending came in and he said, "You don't look good; something's definitely wrong."
Then things got worse, and on that particular Friday, when I went to the emergency room. They got a chest x-ray and I remember everybody said I looked sick. My attending came in and he said, "You don't look good; something's definitely wrong."
As ER doctors, we have a really good way of telling when someone's about to crash. But I was like, "No, I'm fine." He said, "Your lips are blue. You look very pale. Your heart rate is in the 140s." And I said, "I think it's just anxiety." It definitely wasn't.
I wanted to leave against medical advice, but he did not let me. By then, I was admitted just to find out what this was. Initially, we tried to empirically treat it as a possible pneumonia. It looked like a multifocal viral pneumonia. Looking back, it was pleural effusions, but it was very unclear as to what was going on.
I was so lucky to have been in the hospital because I would have died if I had been at home. I looked up at my monitor and I remember that my heart rate was going down. It was in the 50s, then 40s, and then 30s. And that's the last I remember.
So, I asked the residents what had happened after the fact, a couple of months ago. One of the residents said that they couldn't feel pulses at all. I was blue, cold, and sweaty. She said I looked at her and I said, "Please don't let me die tonight." Every time I say that, I get chills.
Eventually, later on in the day, we got an echo and it showed hypokinesis and dilated chambers, and my ejection fraction was 5%. My heart was the problem, so I was switched to the cardiac critical unit. And then once I went there, I had to go to the cath lab.
When they did my first right heart cath, they were worried because my cardiac index was 1.2 initially, and all the numbers were just terrible. At that point, the cardiologist said, "We're going to take you back upstairs, we're going to start you on milrinone, and we're going to have to talk about what to do next."
I remember the attending came in and he said, "This looks like it's pretty chronic. It doesn't look like it's a myocarditis that happened overnight. We're going to have to transfer you in case you're going to need advanced heart failure therapy" — so a VAD, a balloon pump, an Impella, or a heart transplant.
Eventually, I was transferred to the University of Pennsylvania, where I received all of my care.
Glatter: How were you doing emotionally during this entire time? This was such a shock to you.
Gragossian: It was a big shock. I remember I was sad, angry, and in shock, but the way I was thinking — and they called it the most ER doctor way of thinking — I said, "I just need the heart to get out of here." That's all I cared about.
I was like, all right, we have a diagnosis, we have a treatment option, and I've got to get out of here. That was my way of thought. I did have a transplant therapist talk to me every day. I journaled all the time. I tried to process it as well as I could.
At the end of the day, I didn't see it as a terrible option. Some people see transplant as the worst thing that they're going to get. I saw it as the coolest thing ever, because it was a second chance at life. I didn't see it as an end; I saw it as a new beginning.
Glatter: But that chance that you could die, that you may not have a heart, how did that hit you? You were on multiple pressors; you were intubated. I mean, this is your life. You went from a healthy young person to someone who is intubated and ready to die.
Gragossian: I just remember being afraid. There was one particular night that I kept going into ventricular tachycardia, and I remember I started crying. My family was there, and I thought I was going to die.
There was this weird sense of if that's going to happen, it's going to happen. There was this very unusual sense of calm around it. But for the most part, I also trusted everybody. Ironically, I was going to be starting on critical care fellowship — we're in medicine; we do a lot of cool things. There was a part of me that was very sure that things would be okay, if that helps.
Of course, there was a part of me that was afraid. But I was enlisted and then I got the transplant.
Glatter: Can you take me to the day of the transplant, going into the operating room? Do you have thoughts of when you entered, and then the heart from the donor?
Gragossian: Around 7:30, the nurse came in with the phone. I don't remember her name and I don't remember much from the conversation other than, "We found a heart; do you accept it?" I was so in shock that the first thing I said was, "Yes. I'll go call my mom now."
At 2 AM, I was going to the OR for surgery. As they were wheeling me in, I remember, that that's when I was finally like, "Oh my God, they are going to open my chest and take my heart out — and that's good. I'm going to be on ECMO." (ECMO- Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) is a treatment that uses a pump to circulate blood through an artificial lung...)
That's when it all hit me! I remember, I looked at my mom, and I said, "Mom, what if I die?" She said something along the lines of, "If you needed to die, you would have died already. You went through almost-death at least four times during your hospitalization."
She made me feel better by saying that and she kept telling me, "There's so much more you need to do in this world. You would have already died if you needed to."
Around 4:00 or 4:30 AM, they sedated and intubated me. I think at that time, they did some more work and then they started on my surgery, after a couple hours. That was the day of my surgery.
Glatter: Certainly, you're a fighter; I can see that in you. What motivates you? What gives you the strength to go forward, going through what you've gone through?
Gragossian: For the most part, what motivates me right now in my life is my organ donor and her family. I'm not living for them, but there is a part of me that's living for her.
I wanted to leave against medical advice, but he did not let me. By then, I was admitted just to find out what this was. Initially, we tried to empirically treat it as a possible pneumonia. It looked like a multifocal viral pneumonia. Looking back, it was pleural effusions, but it was very unclear as to what was going on.
I was so lucky to have been in the hospital because I would have died if I had been at home. I looked up at my monitor and I remember that my heart rate was going down. It was in the 50s, then 40s, and then 30s. And that's the last I remember.
So, I asked the residents what had happened after the fact, a couple of months ago. One of the residents said that they couldn't feel pulses at all. I was blue, cold, and sweaty. She said I looked at her and I said, "Please don't let me die tonight." Every time I say that, I get chills.
Eventually, later on in the day, we got an echo and it showed hypokinesis and dilated chambers, and my ejection fraction was 5%. My heart was the problem, so I was switched to the cardiac critical unit. And then once I went there, I had to go to the cath lab.
When they did my first right heart cath, they were worried because my cardiac index was 1.2 initially, and all the numbers were just terrible. At that point, the cardiologist said, "We're going to take you back upstairs, we're going to start you on milrinone, and we're going to have to talk about what to do next."
I remember the attending came in and he said, "This looks like it's pretty chronic. It doesn't look like it's a myocarditis that happened overnight. We're going to have to transfer you in case you're going to need advanced heart failure therapy" — so a VAD, a balloon pump, an Impella, or a heart transplant.
Eventually, I was transferred to the University of Pennsylvania, where I received all of my care.
Glatter: How were you doing emotionally during this entire time? This was such a shock to you.
Gragossian: It was a big shock. I remember I was sad, angry, and in shock, but the way I was thinking — and they called it the most ER doctor way of thinking — I said, "I just need the heart to get out of here." That's all I cared about.
I was like, all right, we have a diagnosis, we have a treatment option, and I've got to get out of here. That was my way of thought. I did have a transplant therapist talk to me every day. I journaled all the time. I tried to process it as well as I could.
At the end of the day, I didn't see it as a terrible option. Some people see transplant as the worst thing that they're going to get. I saw it as the coolest thing ever, because it was a second chance at life. I didn't see it as an end; I saw it as a new beginning.
Glatter: But that chance that you could die, that you may not have a heart, how did that hit you? You were on multiple pressors; you were intubated. I mean, this is your life. You went from a healthy young person to someone who is intubated and ready to die.
Gragossian: I just remember being afraid. There was one particular night that I kept going into ventricular tachycardia, and I remember I started crying. My family was there, and I thought I was going to die.
There was this weird sense of if that's going to happen, it's going to happen. There was this very unusual sense of calm around it. But for the most part, I also trusted everybody. Ironically, I was going to be starting on critical care fellowship — we're in medicine; we do a lot of cool things. There was a part of me that was very sure that things would be okay, if that helps.
Of course, there was a part of me that was afraid. But I was enlisted and then I got the transplant.
Glatter: Can you take me to the day of the transplant, going into the operating room? Do you have thoughts of when you entered, and then the heart from the donor?
Gragossian: Around 7:30, the nurse came in with the phone. I don't remember her name and I don't remember much from the conversation other than, "We found a heart; do you accept it?" I was so in shock that the first thing I said was, "Yes. I'll go call my mom now."
At 2 AM, I was going to the OR for surgery. As they were wheeling me in, I remember, that that's when I was finally like, "Oh my God, they are going to open my chest and take my heart out — and that's good. I'm going to be on ECMO." (ECMO- Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) is a treatment that uses a pump to circulate blood through an artificial lung...)
That's when it all hit me! I remember, I looked at my mom, and I said, "Mom, what if I die?" She said something along the lines of, "If you needed to die, you would have died already. You went through almost-death at least four times during your hospitalization."
She made me feel better by saying that and she kept telling me, "There's so much more you need to do in this world. You would have already died if you needed to."
Around 4:00 or 4:30 AM, they sedated and intubated me. I think at that time, they did some more work and then they started on my surgery, after a couple hours. That was the day of my surgery.
Glatter: Certainly, you're a fighter; I can see that in you. What motivates you? What gives you the strength to go forward, going through what you've gone through?
Gragossian: For the most part, what motivates me right now in my life is my organ donor and her family. I'm not living for them, but there is a part of me that's living for her.
Glatter: That's very eloquent to say that. Certainly, the family would appreciate you saying that. That's very dear.
Gragossian: That's how I see it. That's one of the ways I move forward. In all honesty, this is my second chance at life. There are people who don't accept it. I think a lot of it has to do with your mindset. I think it also has to do with how chronic it might be. Maybe, because this was so acute, I reacted to it differently. I'm not sure.
For the most part, people always tell me that I'm one of those people who — there could be three people coding around me and I'm just very calm about it. Maybe that's just my demeanor; I don't know. In the emergency room at work, they always tell me that I'm patient and calm. And I'm like, well, I don't know, maybe.
Glatter: Can you tell me a little bit about your family history and how this played into what happened to you? Can you speak about the genetics of dilated cardiomyopathy?
Gragossian: My dad, when he was in his late 30s, went to his primary care for some reason. He was tachycardic and ended up, incidentally, finding out that he has cardiomyopathy. His ejection fraction at the time was 15%. Because we didn't know the rest of the history, they thought it was probably from myocarditis.
They put my dad on carvedilol and a couple other medications. They wanted to enlist him, and he only tells me this now. I'm like, "Dad, you should've told me this. It would have been great to know this a few months ago."
They told him that he needed to get enlisted for a heart transplant. He was the perfect candidate; he was young and healthy otherwise, and his EF was so low. In the meantime, he needed a defibrillator and all that, but he refused everything, just like his daughter. Stubborn, just like me. He refused those and then he started some medications.
His EF right now is around 40%, so he was able to remodel his heart and they were able to work on it like that. Because he got better and we didn't know the rest of the history, they thought it was due to myocarditis. It's really important to know your family history.
They put my dad on carvedilol and a couple other medications. They wanted to enlist him, and he only tells me this now. I'm like, "Dad, you should've told me this. It would have been great to know this a few months ago."
They told him that he needed to get enlisted for a heart transplant. He was the perfect candidate; he was young and healthy otherwise, and his EF was so low. In the meantime, he needed a defibrillator and all that, but he refused everything, just like his daughter. Stubborn, just like me. He refused those and then he started some medications.
His EF right now is around 40%, so he was able to remodel his heart and they were able to work on it like that. Because he got better and we didn't know the rest of the history, they thought it was due to myocarditis. It's really important to know your family history.
Glatter: Absolutely. Now you're involved with a couple of organizations that help promote organ donation awareness. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit.
Gragossian: I started a fundraiser through Donate Life America and my goal was to raise $2000 by my 2-month anniversary, which was in March. Actually, it ended up raising almost $6000 in 3 weeks, which was great. All of my attendings and my co-residents, my friends — everybody — pitched in. It was nice.
I also helped with Mended Hearts, which is an organization that raises awareness about heart disease, and provides information and education. Mainly, I helped with babies with congenital heart disease. We started making bravery bags and helping in different ways for families of infants and children who are awaiting heart transplant or open-heart surgery. I did a couple of things here and there just to give back while I was on medical leave.
Glatter: Incredible! Also, what I found so stimulating is your blog, A Change of Heart. First of all, you're an incredible writer and you conveyed the meaning of what you're going through. Indeed, many of the ideas that you espouse are just remarkable, including your quotes, such as, "Everything in moderation, including moderation," which is an interesting quote, by Oscar Wilde.
Gragossian: I basically just wrote everything out because I was getting so many texts every day and it was just easier to write everything in one place.
Glatter: It reads like a book, almost. In closing, is there anything you would want our audience to know about you or what you've gone through, as we come to the end of our interview?
Gragossian: I think it's important to be empathetic toward your patients. Communication is key. There are many little things I learned while I was hospitalized, especially about patient care. Because I'm in emergency medicine and I was going to be doing ICU, I saw many things that I could learn from or possibly do differently later.
One of the main things was communication. As doctors, we don't realize that we each have different goals from different specialties. When a cardiologist would come in and say, "Her heart is failing" but then the ICU doctor would come in and say, "She's stable," my parents felt very confused. I understand it, because I'm a doctor; yet, somebody who is not, probably wouldn't.
The main thing I want to tell others, especially in healthcare, is to remember the reason why you went into all of this. I like to tell my co-residents that we get jaded often, especially in the ER and in the ICU, and we don't see what happens with our patients very often.
Gragossian: I started a fundraiser through Donate Life America and my goal was to raise $2000 by my 2-month anniversary, which was in March. Actually, it ended up raising almost $6000 in 3 weeks, which was great. All of my attendings and my co-residents, my friends — everybody — pitched in. It was nice.
I also helped with Mended Hearts, which is an organization that raises awareness about heart disease, and provides information and education. Mainly, I helped with babies with congenital heart disease. We started making bravery bags and helping in different ways for families of infants and children who are awaiting heart transplant or open-heart surgery. I did a couple of things here and there just to give back while I was on medical leave.
Glatter: Incredible! Also, what I found so stimulating is your blog, A Change of Heart. First of all, you're an incredible writer and you conveyed the meaning of what you're going through. Indeed, many of the ideas that you espouse are just remarkable, including your quotes, such as, "Everything in moderation, including moderation," which is an interesting quote, by Oscar Wilde.
Gragossian: I basically just wrote everything out because I was getting so many texts every day and it was just easier to write everything in one place.
Glatter: It reads like a book, almost. In closing, is there anything you would want our audience to know about you or what you've gone through, as we come to the end of our interview?
Gragossian: I think it's important to be empathetic toward your patients. Communication is key. There are many little things I learned while I was hospitalized, especially about patient care. Because I'm in emergency medicine and I was going to be doing ICU, I saw many things that I could learn from or possibly do differently later.
One of the main things was communication. As doctors, we don't realize that we each have different goals from different specialties. When a cardiologist would come in and say, "Her heart is failing" but then the ICU doctor would come in and say, "She's stable," my parents felt very confused. I understand it, because I'm a doctor; yet, somebody who is not, probably wouldn't.
The main thing I want to tell others, especially in healthcare, is to remember the reason why you went into all of this. I like to tell my co-residents that we get jaded often, especially in the ER and in the ICU, and we don't see what happens with our patients very often.
I'm like, hey, look at me: I almost died and here I am jogging 2 miles a day. Remember that what you do really matters. It really does. And don't be so jaded.
Glatter: That's good to know. Thank you so much. This has been incredible to speak to you. Thanks for taking time out of your schedule. We wish you all the best and we hope to follow up with you soon.
Labels: Dr. Alin Gragossian, Medscape, Robet D. Glatter MD
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